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Thread: Massive Custom Table Added! Update v1.5 - Feedback Bug Reports

  1. #1
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    Massive Custom Table Added! Update v1.5 - Feedback Bug Reports

    Custom Extra Large Table:
    • Our largest table yet with the ability to import any image onto it for your massive games!
    • The table can be used like one massive custom board, and you can even use it in combination with the custom board
    • Recommended resolution for the table picture is 4400x2600

    Custom Cards Aspect Ratios:
    • Custom decks now scale to the aspect ratio of the face image (Square cards are now possible)
    • New square face template has been added to the root folder of the game
    • It still uses the same 10x7 template, it's just widened to make the cards square (each image is 490x490)

    Features:
    • Shrinked objects can be done one more step smaller (Should help with using custom decks as counters)
    • Camera mode toggle has been added. You can swap between table rotation and FPS camera style with the 'P' key
    • ‘Disable voice chat’ option added to options menu. This might fix memory leak issue (temporary solution, we are still working on this)

    Fixes:
    • Workshop Support is now working for Mac and Linux users
    • Card sticky and stacking now scales with the size of the card (easier on large cards, and harder on smaller)
    • Saves files is no longer skipping #1 slot for new saves
    • Saving and loading will work if you save files that don't match the normal naming format
    • Increased raised height on Custom Figurines
    • Objects will no longer collide through the rectangle table's side walls
    • Tall poker chip stacks will no longer drag on the ground if flipped a certain way
    • Fixed Custom Figurine memory leak
    • Fixed the aspect ratio on dominoes
    • New collision sphere for mouse bounds


    In the Future:
    • 3D Model modding
    • UI Overhaul
    • RAM Optimization
    • Stability improvement
    • Additional RPG Features
    • ??? game mode
    • More Steam Integration
    • and much more!

    If you are interested in all of our updates since release, please refer to our website to view our previous[url="http://www.berserk-games.com/ts/patchnotes"] patch notes[/url].

  2. #2

    Massive Custom Table Added! Update v1.5 - Feedback Bug Reports

    These days, I have an extra reason to look forward to Fridays - TTS updates! I'm still waiting quietly on the sidelines, reading each new update and biding my time until custom 3d model import shows up (the creative aspect is my idea of fun, even more than playing the actual games)... but I can wait, so keep up the good work! BTW, when that day arrives, if anybody is building a mod and needs some pieces from their favourite board game recreated in 3d, feel free to p.m. me and I'll see if I can help. I'm probably not available to make figurines, except in rare circumstance, since that takes time and energy, and I don't have much of that after work. In other cases, though, if you can provide good photo reference and preferably some measurements, that would make my task easier.

    Cheers,
    jTenebrous

  3. #3

    Massive Custom Table Added! Update v1.5 - Feedback Bug Reports

    when we go into the game it gives us a little info on any updates from the workshop side of things


    Rather then saying the number has been updated is there a way to give us the name of workshop item?

    also heres a little treat as to what I have done with the new table:


  4. #4

    Massive Custom Table Added! Update v1.5 - Feedback Bug Reports

    Very cool update! I can't wait to tinker around with square tokens and the new uberboard! Maybe it's time to yank all that data off my broken laptop and get back to work.

    jay_rab said
    also heres a little treat as to what I have done with the new table:



    Neat repping RMVXA for RP's in game.

  5. #5

    Massive Custom Table Added! Update v1.5 - Feedback Bug Reports

    I'm still having a glitch which often makes a card in other people's hands flicker between the 'it's in someone's hand card' and the actual card when I host. It's a pretty important glitch that needs fixing because i don't want to cheat.

  6. #6
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    Massive Custom Table Added! Update v1.5 - Feedback Bug Reports

    jay_rab said
    Rather then saying the number has been updated is there a way to give us the name of workshop item?


    Yeah, that's something that will come later on.

  7. #7

    Massive Custom Table Added! Update v1.5 - Feedback Bug Reports

    Man, this large table is the bee's knees! The only thing I'd suggest is that maybe if someone doesn't enter in a URL, it defaults to a felt tabletop. Maybe blue or green. Blue because it's not used anywhere else, or green because it could represent outdoors for dungeons and RP settings.

  8. #8

    Massive Custom Table Added! Update v1.5 - Feedback Bug Reports

    Cheesesteak said

    Man, this large table is the bee's knees! The only thing I'd suggest is that maybe if someone doesn't enter in a URL, it defaults to a felt tabletop. Maybe blue or green. Blue because it's not used anywhere else, or green because it could represent outdoors for dungeons and RP settings.

    If you really wanted a felt table, you could just upload a massive felt texture and put it on there. That doesn't mean I don't support this idea. I actually think red felt would suit this table pretty well. It's a shame you're forced to use a custom image on the table even when you don't want one.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    998

    Massive Custom Table Added! Update v1.5 - Feedback Bug Reports

    I was actually thinking about default having a grid texture that lined up with the tileset grid.

  10. #10

    Massive Custom Table Added! Update v1.5 - Feedback Bug Reports

    Knil said

    I was actually thinking about default having a grid texture that lined up with the tileset grid.

    That's pretty clever.

  11. #11

    Massive Custom Table Added! Update v1.5 - Feedback Bug Reports

    You can actually see it already if you move the camera through the table.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    56

    Massive Custom Table Added! Update v1.5 - Feedback Bug Reports

    Bugs:

    1) Spawn in sideways custom deck
    2) Take out 2 cards
    3) Stack those 2 cards in their own deck of 2
    4) Those cards are no longer sideways with alt

    When you hit 'P' to go to fps camera mode then hit alt on a card the table disappears

    When in fps camera mode mouse wheel zoom doesn't work

  13. #13

    Massive Custom Table Added! Update v1.5 - Feedback Bug Reports

    I've noticed that when using the large custom table, that when using the magnify (ALT) feature on cards in your hand typically get cut off because the hand is close to the edge of the screen already and the zoom appears wherever the mouse cursor is. Would it be possible to add an option or setting so that the magnify appears in the centre of the screen instead so I don't have to move the camera every time I want a closer look at my cards?

    Or instead of the centre, do a check if the zoom is partially off-screen and move it to a nearby location where it doesn't get cut off.

  14. #14

    Massive Custom Table Added! Update v1.5 - Feedback Bug Reports

    Poker chips have a tendency to get stuck to the table, until other chips are placed on top.

  15. #15

    Massive Custom Table Added! Update v1.5 - Feedback Bug Reports

    I hope you're ready for a massive run-down of feedback . This comprises a partial list of bugs, feedback, and requests stemming from weeks of casual play with Tabletop Simulator, followed by 30+ hours of intensive focused playtesting of the 1.5 release over this 3-day weekend I've been enjoying. I hope it's useful!

    Camera:
    Bugs:
    - (FPS Camera) Gradual zoom on the mousewheel does not work
    - (FPS Camera) Toggle zoom on the Z key does not work
    - (FPS Camera) Releasing the ALT key pushes the camera through the table.

    Requests:
    - Please allow an option to DISABLE RMB rotation with the normal (Non-FPS) camera... I usually use keyboard hotkeys for that particular mode, and accidently tapping RMB usually messes up my view. Also, in normal view mode, I would like to rebind the manual Zoom hotkeys to Alt-Up and Alt-Down so I can pan and zoom with the same hand. What I actually want, though, is to be able to manually bind all of these controls... in fact, every control.

    - Please implement a fixed top-down orthographic camera mode which can be toggled with a hotkey, and which remembers the last-used zoom level specific to that camera (to be reset with the default camera reset hotkey). This would work well in gameplay for some games, but importantly, it would be really useful when setting up a board for gameplay, or when designing a game module.

    Feedback:
    Considered *Opinion* on the 2 Camera systems:
    I have spent over 40 hours now in TTS (ok, not a huge amount but enough to get my feet wet), and I regret to admit that I find the whole camera system pretty confounding - that's coming from a guy who's video gamed for almost 30 years and spends upwards of 40 hours each week spread across three different 3d modeling apps, each with their own native control scheme. Prior to the 1.5 update, I had to swap the default camera controls assigned to the arrow keys (Pan) with those assigned to WASD (rotate) because the standard configuration for almost all FPS games is WASD for forward/strafe and mouse for rotation. It still never felt "right" to me, which is to say it had noticeable dissimilarities to any other camera control scheme with which I've ever become familiar. I guess in my perfect world, the camera would follow either one of 2 established paradigms (or both, in separate modes which can be toggled): A.) Controls which are exactly like a 3d-modeling package such as Max or Maya, and which tend to center around either the MMB with modifier keys (typically ALT/CTRL/SHIFT) for zoom/rotate/pan or around the ALT key with the LMB,MMB, and RMB for zoom/rotate/pan OR B.) Controls which are exactly like an FPS, where the ground plane is fixed in one location (expounded upon below). To further clarify, in the 3d-modeling package paradigm I, the player, am fixed in place and the game table and everything on it is a mobile object which I manipulate in 3d space, as if I were holding it in my hands. Whereas, in the FPS paradigm I, the player, am mobile and use the camera to move about in fixed world space wherein the game table and everything on it remain in a stationary location upon an immobile ground.

    So now, in the 1.5 update, an FPS style camera has been added, and I had hoped it would be the answer I was looking for. It is so nearly there but, unfortunately, for me, it still feels unintuitive and could benefit from some changes (or at least an option to toggle in the preferences). The way the FPS camera is currently setup, it feels like the "Ground Plane" is physically attached to a boom on the front of the camera, and moves as the camera angle changes. Therefore, if I press "Forward/A", when the camera is facing the table, I get the effect of "zooming" into the table. If the camera is facing the horizon, then pressing "Forward/A" results in me walking toward the horizon. If the camera is at an angle, as it commonly is, then I get a little bit of both behaviours simultaneously. This absolutely does my head in because in an FPS, usually the ground plane is fixed to the XZ plane (since Unity is a Y-up program), as if I am walking around in a virtual world with gravity much like our own. If I want to feel like I am walking around the gaming table in an FPS, then the ground plane needs to stay constant for my mind to process how the controls are going to direct me as the player. That means WASD will move me forward/back/left/and right within the "world" and the table be will fixed in the same place. If I want to look at the table, I will hold down RMB and look at the table. Likewise, if I am looking down at the table and press WASD I will get the visual effect of panning up/down/left/right. How to deal with "zooming" then? In most FPS games, there is jump and crouch to deal with vertical up/down motion. Often those keys default to space for jump and C or Ctrl for crouch, but it depends on the game. In Tabletop Simulator, neither of those control schemes would work with the current default hotkeys. So it's bound instead to holding MMB and moving the mouse - and I think that scheme would *work very well* if, again, the ground plane was fixed to XZ. If looking at the horizon, it would appear that you were "floating" up or down, and if looking at the board it would appear you were "zooming" in/out. I will make one quick mention of the fact we need to be able to adjust the sensitivity of any mouse-based camera controls independently. Right now, for me the HoldMMB/move mouse controls feels really slow compared to the HoldRMB/move mouse controls. I have RSI from all the ludicrous hours I spend mousing, so the less repeated movement I have to do the better - that means I prefer slightly higher-sensitivity mouse movements and smooth zooming which does *not* require rolling the mouse wheel over and over. Since not all preferences are the same, the ability to customise our configuration is important. I hope I explained all of this clearly, and am happy to debate the subject further to see what others think.

    I should also quickly bring up a thought I've had about the Toggle Zoom system I've been feeling over the last month. Right now, there seems to be two states to the Toggle Zoom system: 1.) Too Far Away and 2.) Too Close. So, the default of "1.) Too Far Away" is easy to justify - it simply zooms out so that everything on the table can be seen. This obviously needs to exist, but it could use some minor adjustments: if I open up the new extra large table and hit SPACE to reset my view, I can see the entire table, but I can also see too much of the environment... the top 20% of my screen is filled with empty environment that could be put to better use if the camera was cropped to the edges of the table, putting me that much closer to the things which I am trying to see. Also, I note in the 1.5 release that if I reset the camera, in some cases its rotation will actually be a bit off and it's not aligned exactly with the table - small detail, but worth mentioning. Switching to the larger issue of 2.) Too Close... well, it's as if I'm shoving my face right up to the game table every time I clicked the Toggle Zoom key. I can actually smell the virtual felt fibers and see the tiny dust particulates settled within. Why so close? 100% of the time, after I've clicked to Toggle Zoom, I have to roll my mouse wheel to zoom out a bit, otherwise my field of vision is so small that I can't even see what I'm doing with the figurine or whatever it is that I've zoomed in on. My suggestion would be that a variable is defined to remember the last zoom distance used so that whenever I Toggle Zoom, it returns to that specified distance, since the optimum level may differ per game. Alternatively, just back off the zoom by about 20% - I can always manually zoom in closer if I want to count the nose hairs of my knight figurine.

    Cards:
    Bugs:
    - During multiple card pickup, sometimes it's beneficial to pick up the cards in a certain order. If I picked up card A, hover it over the *bottom 1/3 or so* of card B, and press RMB to pick up card B... sometimes card A will clip through the bottom of card B and I'll pick both of them up, but card B will be on top. On further testing, I only seem to be able to replicate this behaviour on cards which have been scaled down.
    - If I deal many cards to the player, perhaps from multiple decks, cards which have been scaled down can become hidden/concealed within the player's hand.
    - Particularly on the new *extra large* table, cards in hand are often partially cut off at the bottom of the screen.

    Requests:
    - Please implement the ability to search through a deck and pull out specific cards. This is an important ability for many games. Case use: The new square cards are awesome and I will be using them for tokens/counters/chits for hex wargames. In fact, using them in a deck could be even better than making custom 3d models of them (when that feature is rolled out) for one very important reason: most hex wargames use TONS of them, and it would be an organisational nightmare if they couldn't be arranged into decks or other containers where they could readily selected/copied etc. The same problem exists to some extent in real life - it can be a real headache! One possible way to implement this feature would be to temporarily "deal" an entire deck into a special "hand" of the player which is separate from any other cards which have already been dealt to the player, from which the player could individually move cards to his hand (being able to copy them instead of moving them would be important in some cases), and then return the remaining cards back to the deck on the table.

    - Please allow for decks of fully-customised two-sided cards. In other words, please allow us to import a separate full texture map for each side of the deck, rather than the current system which allows the import of a texture map for the fronts of the cards, and a single shared image for the backs. Case use: being able to make square cards allows us to make counters/chits. In many games, these chits have two different sides, denoting differing statuses.

    - Please implement an option to disable shuffling certain decks.

    - Please allow us to label decks. The current system of "Deck 1", "Deck 2", etc. quickly gets confusing in some games.

    - Please enable Saved Games to remember the specific order in which cards are placed in the player's hand. Right now, the hand appears to revert to a random order every time a save is loaded.

    - Please enable us to pick up cards from a deck, or the table, one-by-one in a specific sequence, and then set them down again in reverse order, one-by-one. For example, I could pick up cards A,B,C in that order, and place them down in a spread on the table in order C, B, A. This mirrors an action which is possible in real life and which would enable certain basic gameplay actions, such as playing a standard game of solitaire where one most move an organised sequence of cards from one location to another.

    Tables:
    Bugs:
    - On the new "Extra Large" table I can see there is a gap between the game board area and the bordering wood table. In this gap, I can see that the cube is "Cube Mapped" for the texture, which is fine, except that it's a bit unsightly, since my game board texture obviously begins to repeat down "inside" the table. Maybe have your 3d guy seal this gap up or do something else to hide it?

    Request:
    -At some point, the 3d miniature wargamers here are going to have need of being able to specify a table size in real-world units. That, or some really, REALLY massive tables will need to be available. I've played a number of games that require an 8' by 4' board board for example... pretty huge, but not that uncommon. The wargames made at the company I work for, for example, regularly specify scenarios on a 6'x4' board... and this is used broadly across the industry. Finally, the most commonly sized industry "standard" size for many wargames boards is 4'x4'. These sizes do *not* include the extra room necessary to lay out game accessories, rulers, cards, play aids, off-the-table miniatures, etc. - that's just the play area. A sizable skirt area around the play area should also be available.

    Environments/Backgrounds:
    Feedback:
    - I really like the clean daylight appearance of the "Field" Environment, but it really blows out the white exposure of the game assets on the table. Is there anything that can be done to dial that back?

    Object Manipulation:
    Feedback:
    - "The hand" is a fun gimmick initially, but it quickly becomes apparent that it's a bit unwieldy, inaccurate, and hinders game play. For example, when trying move a piece to a specific location on the board, the shadow is the only reference of where it'll land. But from many zoom levels and, depending on the perspective, the hand blocks the shadow, leaving us to guess. Also, when placing pieces with the copy/paste function, the pieces do not center exactly on the end of the extended index finger... it's actually nearer to the first finger joint and slightly offset to the right? I recommend an option to disable the hand and switch to a more traditional crosshair which will not block visibility and which will allow us *accurately* pick up the pieces we want (by all means, leave the hand visible to remote players, since that's one place where it's useful), which leads to my next point...

    - "The hand" very often will not correctly choose the pieces we intend to pick up, which can be very frustrating. This happens especially when many small "Player Pawns", dice, or other components are located in close proximity with one another. This is especially prevalent when one piece "occludes" another, which is to say it is blocking the piece behind it, from the perspective of the camera. An example where this happens regularly is when attempting to pick up a d6, for example, from behind a Player Pawn, which is a slightly taller object... usually the hand will pick up the Player Pawn instead.

    - Using "the hand" to nudge/push a piece is just all over the place, honestly. Depending on the piece you are trying to push, it can be completely fruitless. Try pushing the Player Pawn, for example... it just topples over much of the time. Also, there appears to be an invisible collision mesh around "the hand" which does not fit it very accurately, so it's a guessing game to know in which way it's contacting the piece you are trying to manipulate. Again, having a more traditional crosshair could help alleviate this problem.

    - I am usually very careful and deliberate about where I want to set down an object that I have picked up. This comes from a need of reasonable accuracy in wargaming. To that end, I do not "drop" the piece from above, but prefer instead to place it down in location with the RMB. There have been recent improvements in Tabletop Simulator to reduce the "slamming" effect of this action, but it is still not always the case, especially in the case of manipulating cards. I hope this can be further adjusted so that pieces can be placed down more carefully.

    - When moving pieces accurately, I find it quite intuitive to LMB-grab the piece, and move it closely to the board by also holding RMB. This is *highly inconsistent* at the moment, though. For example, it works well with *most* of the RPG kit figurines on bases, but *not at all* on the metallic player figurines, which just topple over. Also, dice, player pawns, a hand holding more than one card, chess pieces, and a number of other objects, do not work correctly in this way... again, they just drag along, flopping this way and that.

    Game Module Design
    Requests:
    - Please allow us to either manually edit a save file to change the location of an asset required for the game module, or implement this functionality into the UI within Tabletop Simulator. Case Use: I spent about 18 hours this weekend porting a game and all its assets into Tabletop Simulator, using locally stored images. When I completed my final draft I found, much to my horror, that there was no way for me to change the save file so that the asset locations pointed to my web-hosted images rather than the locally stored ones. Furthermore, when I deleted the card decks and table image within my saved game that pointed to the locally-stored images, and recreated the same elements again with the web-hosted images, the save file *still maintained reference* to the locally stored images, even though they were no longer in use.... obviously this resulted in errors. In the end, I had to spend a further 6 hours manually reconstructing the whole game in Tabletop Simulator from scratch, only referencing web-hosted images this time.

    Final Notes:
    If you have managed to wade through this entire wall-of-text, you have my sincere gratitude. This compilation of experience with this software has been weeks in the making, and I didn't want to spam the forum with little odds and ends of personal opinion which were not based on sufficient hand-on experience. Also, I've undoubtedly missed out on mentioning a few things, but I suppose I should save a bit for later . I truly appreciate the Tabletop Simulator project, and am fully invested in "the vision" - believe me when I say I understand the kind of time and effort that goes into such a project. Keep up the brilliant work!

    Kind regards,
    jTenebrous

  16. #16

    Massive Custom Table Added! Update v1.5 - Feedback Bug Reports

    jTenebrous said

    Considered *Opinion* on the 2 Camera systems:
    I have spent over 40 hours now in TTS (ok, not a huge amount but enough to get my feet wet), and I regret to admit that I find the whole camera system pretty confounding - that's coming from a guy who's video gamed for almost 30 years and spends upwards of 40 hours each week spread across three different 3d modeling apps, each with their own native control scheme. Prior to the 1.5 update, I had to swap the default camera controls assigned to the arrow keys (Pan) with those assigned to WASD (rotate) because the standard configuration for almost all FPS games is WASD for forward/strafe and mouse for rotation. It still never felt "right" to me, which is to say it had noticeable dissimilarities to any other camera control scheme with which I've ever become familiar.


    I just finished our Wed night play session with v1.5 and I have to agree -- the camera has gotten worse. As far as I can tell, the main problem is the Pan Vertical + and Pan Vertical - key bindings. If those key bindings worked the same way as the Pan Horizontal +/- bindings but along the orthogonal axis, I think it would solve the problem (for me at least; it would make it pretty much like the World-of-Warcraft camera system.)

    Knil, is there any chance of posting or PMing me your code for the Pan Vertical and Horizontal key bindings? I'm an old-timer C programmer with a good math background (but not much knowledge of Unity3D) and I might be able to best explain the transformation I'm thinking of in code.

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