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Thread: Deck Manipulation Sugestions... and improving rthe CCG experience.

  1. #1

    Deck Manipulation Sugestions... and improving rthe CCG experience.

    Hi there... I have recently been going through, playing and testing some of the CCG type mods on TTS. I come form a CCG background as my gateway into table top gaming back in the early 90s and it is still one of my fav game types..

    ... for the most part I have found TTS to be really bad at simulating these kinds of card games, meaning that OCTGN and LACKEYCCG are still vastly superior in many ways.. even though they lack the visual appeal of TTS.

    Some simple things that are a pain in TTS.

    Token Management

    Many card games require a lot of token use, especially the LCG and AEG games (Like Doomtown Reloaded and Star Wars the Card Game). Dragging tokens out of infinite bags, then removing them manually is clunky and ineffectual.

    2 Fixes I can think of...
    ... be able to hotkey scripting. So you could simply "spawn" a token at the mouse pointer based on a keyboard press.
    Be able to "Drag Select" things but ONLY select certain objects. So you could select all the tokens but not the cards.

    Work Around in my upcoming mod
    What I have done in my mod to get around this is have a single infinite bag on each player board that has the token type in it and that token has an actual button script on it.. with a +/- and a amount readout. This way you can add tokens and remove them with simple button clicks. with out the clumsy dragging of stuff all over the table. This also allows group effects like "add resources" buttons on the player board that can increment the values on all tokens of a given type with a single press.

    Temporary Card Zones

    Many games have temporary hand zones used for various card effects.. like ScryX for example. This means draw 5 cards, arrange in order and place back on the top of the deck. There are so many variations of this effect. Shuffle After, place one in hand, swap form hand, pull form bottom of deck etc etc etc.

    What we kind of need is a temporary player zone that can be called into existence for these effects and then destroyed. As at the moment you need to either use a "hidden zone" or have a second player hand zone. You can not use the regular hand zone as many of these effects do not interact with the hand and people could cheat by placing cards form there hand back into the deck and keeping fresh cards just drawn.

    Here is a screen shot from my LackeyCCG plugin for Lord of the Rings (wow, made this plugin almost a decade ago!! and still updatbng it haha). Here you can see me doing a 5 card scry into the player deck. This window has a bunch of options.. you can drag to your hand, return to a chosen deck (discard, deck, basically any defined deck zone), choose to shuffle, or not shuffle afterwards and place on top of the decks or on the bottom, in order of left to right.

    Most serious card game apps use something like this.

    I am not really sure how this could be fixed... What I think would be cool is actually pretty major.. but I think that TTS should allow the modders to actually make custom UI components (like the buttons) but much more complex. So we could actually build something like this. If moders had the power to create their own scripted UI system then the pressure is off the TTS creators to develop every system themselves.

    Work Around
    In my mod I have gotten around this by having a secondary card zone near the deck. This is actually a completely separate "hand zone". So pressing "5" on the deck will stil deal you main zone 5 cards but there is a new zone that you can deal to or in my case access with scripts. So if you want to scry 5, then drag 5 into this other zone.. it is separate form the player hand but still private and able to be manipulated. You can pick up a deck even and alt+right-click to drop cards from the bottom of the deck directly. Unfortunately as there are limited tools for placing things at the bottom of decks it can be very clunky, so I have opted for a scripted player board to handle all of this.

    Zone Permissions

    Many game now have shared zones that all players use.. but still behave like a deck hand. While you can set a zone for a player to be hidden to all what would be awesome would be a way to set zones to be visible to some or all players, and make that a live changeable effect even.

    For example.. many games have delt "offers" that all players can look at.. for now these zones needs to be on the table and cards dropped onto the table as as far as I know this is the only way to palce cards there for everyone to see. Problem is that you loose all the hand zone scripting utility, though this can be replicated with standard scripting zones.

    What would be more important is when you draw X cards into a special zone like a scry but the card played informs you to "share" that information to one of your opponents. You can not use the table offer system as you can not share it with all players. At the moment the only way to do this I know of is to have hidden zones and physically place the cards in your opponents zone so they can see but no one else can.

    What would be cool is if you could right click or through scripting give visual access to specific players at the table to a card zone.

    General Deck Manipulation

    Slide stacks of cards under a deck
    One of the biggest problems is drawing and placing cards at the bottom of the deck. You can hold right click and slide a single card under the deck, but if you have 2 or more cards, then you simply can't do anything but physically pick up the deck, drop it, pick up the cards drop them then pick up the deck and drop them on the cards. This is kinda a big deal and one of the more frustrating things about playing complex card games in TTS

    Drawing form the bottom of the deck.
    This is also not possible (with out scripting). Something as simple as holding down "alt" when you press 1-x mousing over the deck to make it draw form the bottom would be cool. If you turn the deck over and draw you get to see the last not drawn card and this should be hidden information. You can pick up the entire deck and hold alt and press right click to "drop form the bottom" but it is clunky and slow and then you need to fiddle around.

  2. #2
    Just one suggestion per thread if you could Tragic.

    You've already got these laid out by heading so could you just separate them out into individual threads

    Its all good stuff but its preferred if you stick to this guideline in the future.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by Lucky seven; 05-26-2017 at 08:32 PM.

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